You held them to their own definition of respect at ▶0:10 and explicitly challenged the 'one person' defeatist attitude at ▶6:26.

You consistently applied the victim lens, especially at ▶5:36, comparing their 'challenge' of dieting to the victim's experience of being killed.

You secured multiple handshakes for both being vegan and becoming an active defender at ▶6:11 and ▶7:02.

You stayed on the moral case, though the detour into ChatGPT for nutrition slightly distracted from the ethical focus.

You were assertive and honest, particularly when you told them 'This is about a moral obligation' at ▶2:28.

You correctly identified this bystander as reachable and genuine, despite their initial resistance regarding health.

The conversation was efficient; you spent enough time to dissolve their health concerns without letting them loop.

How do you feel about humans exploiting other animals?

Pretty bad.

Do you agree that humans should respect other animals?

Yeah.

And is it possible to truly respect them if you're using them for your selfish purposes?

No.

That's disrespect, right? Yeah. Do you know what the definition of veganism is?

No consuming anything that comes from an animal, right?

So that's part of the practice or the action, but the definition is that it's an ethical principle that humans should live without exploiting other animals.

Okay.

That means you stop viewing them as existing for your selfish purposes, and instead you acknowledge that they exist for their own reasons. So do you agree that they do not exist as human property? That they're not your slaves or objects or—

Of course not. Does this include not having a pet?

Having a pet is a good thing if you adopt and you provide them with guardianship instead of viewing them as something you own or going to a breeder and paying them to Exploit them for profit, treating them with respect. Basically, do you know what the biggest advantage of being vegan is? So for the victims, they'll have one more human on this planet who represents justice for them. And for you, when you say you respect animals, you won't be a hypocrite anymore because you'll be telling the truth with your actions. And your actions are what define your character, not your words, right? Yeah. And so if you were in their position, how fast would you want this injustice to end? Immediately or eventually?

Immediately.

Exactly. So. How many more animals from now on should be exploited because of you? Should it be zero or more?

Should be zero, no.

And do you feel like there's anything stopping you from being vegan?

Health purposes.

Health? Do you think your health is stopping you from being vegan?

Yeah, I have a health issue that the only thing that have actually allowed me to eat properly has been eating cow meat.

So what is it in cow meat that you need?

It just has made my organism much better, like, because I have a lot of issues with eating. I have a lot of gastric issues. A lot of things I eat.

Have you ever done a plant-based diet for extended periods of time?

No, but I've taken some food out of my diet to see, like screening them. For example, I don't take anything that comes from lactose. The only thing that I've seen that is eating eggs and cow meat as well. I try as much as possible to buy my stuff in organic markets where they're supposed to have like proper treatments for the animals.

Are you open to the fact that you can get your nutrients on a plant-based diet?

I don't know, like that's my dilemma. Like if I take that out, is my health gonna deteriorate or not.

This is about a moral obligation.

No, I know.

So regarding what you said about organic, by the way, that doesn't really mean anything for the animals. Some slaves are treated better than other slaves, but they're still slaves at the end of the day. Let's say a small farm that you would say you agree with, would you accept what happens to them happening to you?

No, of course not.

To be viewed as someone else's property and to be exploited and killed?

No, of course not. So that's why it's unacceptable to, even in those cases, to I know people that they have like an autoimmune disease where they can only eat cow meat because anything else for a long period of time would kill them.

So they don't eat anything from a plant?

Nothing. Even if it's plant-based, it's bad.

The science is on our side in terms of plant-based diets being adequate for all stages of life and for people with all ranges of conditions.

Because these people that have already tried plant-based diets, everything, and the only resource has been eating cow meat. Like, what kind of person is that?

There's so many different kinds of plant-based diets that exist. Surely one of them would work for them. Again, this is an injustice.

No, I know. I'm an animal lover.

And you agree that they should be respected?

Yeah, I agree too.

So do you agree that you have an obligation to figure out how to eat a plant-based diet?

Yeah, of course.

So how to be vegan is not as important as why you need to be vegan.

I also think that this also not only applies to the part of eating but also the part of what you wear, right?

Yes. There's many forms of exploitation.

Yeah, there's also makeup, skincare, shampoo.

Zoos, aquariums, dogs. Like we just talked about dogs from breeders instead of being adopted.

Also people that just have a pet and they just mistreat them, right? Yep.

Or riding horses. Cosmetics that are tested, you can easily address that just by choosing vegan products.

Yeah, no, for example, me in that aspect, I do my best as to not use products that come from animals. The only thing is that I do eat cow meat and eggs.

But I promise you that if you're open to figuring out how to eat a plant-based diet, to live, to live healthily, you will figure it out. I'll say that you can use ChatGPT and it helps you to guide through any kind of challenge you have nutritionally or otherwise.

Okay.

Generally, my advice is to stick to whole foods, but I know that you can figure this out for yourself.

You're not a specialist.

You don't even need that. You just need to use ChatGPT and ask them very specific questions.

Really?

Yes, and it will scour through all of the scientific data.

I'm not making these questions for challenging. I'm just curious.

No, I don't think you are.

Yeah, I'm just curious.

I feel that you're being genuine.

I love animals and I hate when people mistreat them. For me, it's tough even to just even glance at it.

And that's the thing, right? You love animals, but you don't even need to love animals. You can hate them, but still you should respect them. Like if someone hates you, they don't have the right to exploit you to death, do they? Exactly. So you don't even need to love them. But the fact—

There's a lot of people that don't think like that.

But you do. That's why we're having this conversation. You can control your actions. You have a choice.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Do they have any choice?

No, no, not at all.

They're at your mercy. This is why I'm saying you need to figure out how to do this.

No, it's interesting. I like that you're doing this.

And you say you love animals and you hate what is happening to them and you can't even watch this. So imagine if it's difficult to watch what's happening to them.

Yeah, feeling it.

Imagine what it's like to experience. And if you think it's challenging to figure out how you're going to eat a plant-based diet and live healthily, imagine how difficult it is to be in their position. They should not be subjected to exploitation and get disrespected to death in order to make you healthy. There's other ways that you can be healthy. You agree?

Yeah, no, I agree.

And you agree that from now on, the number of animals that should be exploited for you should be zero?

100%, yeah.

And there's nothing significant enough that stops you from being vegan? So vegan from now? Good.

Strong.

That's good. Can I get a handshake on that?

Of course, yeah.

That's strong of you. I really respect that.

Imagine if everybody said, I don't make a—

I won't make a difference?

I don't make a difference.

A lot of people do say that. It's very defeatist.

But I do know people that say, oh, one more person. And it's like, well, you would be surprised what a lot of people in mass could do.

Exactly. I'm one person. I co-founded this organization. It's happening all over the world. That's beyond me not exploiting animals anymore by being vegan. I'm also active. You can also do this with your life too. Some people won't listen. They'll make excuses for not changing. When they say, I'm only one person, what kind of difference can I make? Well, if you don't change, you're one more person that makes sure nothing will change.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah. So you understand that? And do you agree that they deserve to be actively defended like what we are doing?

Yeah.

Good. Then don't be a silent vegan.

No.

Speak up for them in the same way that you would want to be spoken up for if you were in their situation. Will you do that?

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Can I get a handshake on that too? Of course.

No, I'm— you know what's going on with the genocide in Palestine.

Yep.

So I've been part of the marches. I'm half Lebanese, so I had a lot of people telling me like, oh, what is one person gonna make a difference? And I say, well, you would be surprised. If everybody talked like that, nobody could make a difference.

Exactly.

But then you can see all the movement that has been going on throughout, and there's been a change. So I understand what you're speaking of. Preachers have been being gaslighted, right? Because it's kind of like a gaslighting.

It is.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Like a collective gaslighting. Yeah.

That's right. And so the reason why you need to be speaking up about this first and foremost is because everybody is responsible for this. 3 times a day, maybe, they exploit animals to death.

Yeah.

With any other injustice on the planet, we don't have this kind of level or scale of atrocity. You know, like everyone you know in your social circle, they're not responsible for what's happening in Palestine necessarily. Being a voice to address that is important, but in this case, Everyone you know is responsible. That's exactly why you need to speak up.

Okay.

And some people won't change, they'll make excuses, but many people will change the more that you speak up. And you're welcome to join this organization. We do this work here in Barcelona, but we also do it all over the world. I'm going to give you this card. This information will empower you to be the strongest voice that you can be for the animals. That will help you to find local chapters and things you can do to get involved with the organization. We also have training and support and resources. To help you convince people to change. You now have changed. We have been talking for 10, maybe 15 minutes at the most, but I actually usually get people changing within 3 to 5 minutes. This is our usual practice.

You kind of like make people aware of it because sometimes people don't have actually the awareness until they get the information.

But it's not just about awareness raising. This is about a call to action.

Yeah, of course.

It's not enough to know that this is wrong. It's not hard to agree that animals deserve respect. What people need to do is actually act that way.

Yeah.

And so I'm glad that you understand that. Now your job is to make others understand that and to actually change. So you should join this organization at some point. If not, use the information and be active.

What's your name?

My name's Paul. Yours?

Maryam.

Maryam.

Nice to meet you. Have a good day.

All right, take care. Bye. Crushing it.